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  #1  
Old 10-09-2018, 07:09 PM
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Default I Feel Like It's My Fault, But I Don't Think It Is

DCB, 3.5 years.

DCB started with me second week of August 2018 and is a dream child. He cried at drop off for about 1 month and now he enters fine but hides behind mom. When he did cry, it lasted all of 10 seconds after mom left. He's a calm child. An emotional child. A smart child. Gets along very well with others, follows directions well, keeps his hands and feet to himself.

DCD brought up some concerns today and it took me by surprise. First he asked if we went outside. I said yes with the exception of the past few days because I laid winter grass seed and we need to stay off until it takes root. He asked if DCB plays while outside. I told him it's about 50/50. Sometimes he plays, sometimes he just walks around. Dad asked what we have to do outside. I told him we have a playhouse, slide, ride on toys, balls, chalk and bubbles.

DCD then told me that DCB is different at home. He no longer likes to go outside when he is home. DCD will ask DCB if he wants to swim or go to the park and DCB will say no that he wants to stay at home.

DCD then said that DCB just seems off. Like he is afraid to get in trouble. DCD asked if DCB gets in trouble here. I told him no, told him I implement redirection and time out here, but I don't remember when DCB's last TO was as it's been so long. (I think DCB has only had one TO and that was for throwing a toy.)

DCD also asked if there was yelling. No, I don't yell at the children. I did not tell DCD this, but my son yells/has tantrums often because he is 18 months. DCD knows I have a son.

DCD expressed that he doesn't want DCB to have his spirit squashed. Said that mom grew up in an authoritarian style household and so it is important to DCD that DCB keeps his spirit and fun.

DCB has never gotten a bad report at the end of the day. When he would cry at drop off I would send pictures to his parents when he stopped. I've sent photos of DCB doing activities. The only thing I can think of that would upset DCB is that I make him put his own clothing on. He can put his underwear/pants on but he doesn't like to and he takes forever. So after a few minutes the other children and I will move on to an activity and DCB joins us when he puts his clothes on. I can spend 10 minutes waiting with the group for him to do it. If the group and I move along, his clothes are on in 30 seconds. DCD told me he is similar at home. It's not that he won't do something, it's that he takes forever to do it.

I told DCD I sense concern and worry from him. He said they were happy here, liked my structure, the activities I do with the children, etc. But he just wanted to watch DCB. DCD admitted that DCB has had a lot of changes. And wondered if DCB is upset because DCB's sister gets to go to work with DCM (she is a teacher) and he comes here.

I am super lost here.

Is it me? Is it this DCB? Am I taking this too personally? I want DCB to be happy here. Truth be told I thought he was until today! I have to be honest I am kind of confused as to how DCB not wanting to swim, go to the park, or being different at home is my fault?
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Old 10-09-2018, 07:19 PM
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I had a very smart child the same age learn she could get extra attention from mom and dad by acting the same way. Is there any chance he’s figured out he can act that way to get his own way or get extra attention at home? “I don’t want to go swimming” and then mom or dad gives extra cuddles and asks why etc and kiddo gets to feel special.
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Old 10-09-2018, 07:40 PM
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Some kids are just homebodies. My son would have declined those things as well. I took him anyway, lol.
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Old 10-09-2018, 07:41 PM
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I'd approach it this way...

DCD, do you think it's possible that DCB is just glad to be home after being away all day and wants to stay put for a while? He's here full time and he has tons of fun, is a good boy..but that's exhausting for little ones. He's probably just glad to be home.
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Old 10-09-2018, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by KiwiKids View Post
I had a very smart child the same age learn she could get extra attention from mom and dad by acting the same way. Is there any chance he’s figured out he can act that way to get his own way or get extra attention at home? “I don’t want to go swimming” and then mom or dad gives extra cuddles and asks why etc and kiddo gets to feel special.
Hmm, I wish I would have thought to ask how mom/dad respond when DCB says he would rather stay at home!

I can certainly see how this DCB has the potential to do the same thing. His sister is in 1st grade and seems to be a big button pusher. Mom says no, DCB's sister does it more. I have a feeling DCB's sister gets a lot of negative attention (she certainly does at drop off and pick up time) and DCB is vying for some of that attention too. But because DCB is a natural pleaser he doesn't want to go the negative attention route.

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Some kids are just homebodies. My son would have declined those things as well. I took him anyway, lol.
This is very true. I noticed a decline in my own daughter wanting to go places when school started because school takes so much out of her. On the weekend she just wants to stay at home and read/play often times to the point of crying and throwing fits because she "doesn't want to go."
But come a long school break and she is ready to go out and do things.
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Old 10-10-2018, 12:47 AM
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I agree with your assessment that being made to work on self-help skills may be causing some of the problems. Some children that are used to parents doing things for them often experience a sort of anxiety when made to do it themselves. However, after they master the skill they return to normal. I always have to tell parents “x is working on x which is hard work. You may experience some reluctance when he comes to daycare for a few days because as much as he wants to be a big kid it’s a difficult transition and I’m making him try before I help.”

I also agree that him wanting to stay home likely has to do with being in daycare full time and possibly knowing sister is with mom. Sensitive kids can be interesting like that.

However, I have this exact family in my care and the number #1 problem is that daycare dad reads way too much in to things and talks to his child way too much about trivial matters which causes the child to have odd, anxiety prone types of behaviors in dad’s presence. I think the child picks up on dad’s concern and it causes the child anxiety. I only see those behaviors at drop off and pick up.. Sounds weird right? This angelic child was having a meltdown on the way in to my house at drop off because a button wasn’t buttoned correctly. Dad stayed outside with him, blocking the driveway and talking to him about it for a good 5 minutes. I finally poked my head out and said “x, come in, it’s time to get our day started” and he came in. After I shut the door I said “what was that about? Was it about the button not being buttoned in the jacket you’re taking off? That doesn’t seem like a very good way to start a day! Let’s not let a tiny button make us sad!” And just like that he stopped being upset, gave me a “knowing” smile, took off his gear and ran off to play.
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Old 10-10-2018, 02:42 AM
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Don't want to squash his spirit? Only thing I see squashing his spirit is making too big of a deal out of this(not you, them). Kids are smart; they learn how to grab attention from adults very quickly. Parents need to figure out a way to encourage other activities without it becoming a manipulative attention-seeking process.
Ds, oh you don't want to go to the park? Okay, I'll go by myself and maybe stop for 'ice cream, see some dogs, find a fire truck....' on the way. I watched this very same type of thing happen at p/u yesterday between dcm and dcg(5 yo). Dcm said 'come on, let's go ride bikes'. Dcg was tired and said no. So dcm said 'we can go past the fire station and see the fire trucks!' 'OK'. The dcps need to be a little more creative with their persuasions, not blame or guilt you, or just let it all drop for now to let ds actually rest and enjoy his downtime. Even for a child, being 'on' all day long can be downright draining!
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Old 10-10-2018, 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Baby Beluga View Post
DCB, 3.5 years.

DCB started with me second week of August 2018 and is a dream child. He cried at drop off for about 1 month and now he enters fine but hides behind mom. When he did cry, it lasted all of 10 seconds after mom left. He's a calm child. An emotional child. A smart child. Gets along very well with others, follows directions well, keeps his hands and feet to himself.

DCD brought up some concerns today and it took me by surprise. First he asked if we went outside. I said yes with the exception of the past few days because I laid winter grass seed and we need to stay off until it takes root. He asked if DCB plays while outside. I told him it's about 50/50. Sometimes he plays, sometimes he just walks around. Dad asked what we have to do outside. I told him we have a playhouse, slide, ride on toys, balls, chalk and bubbles.

DCD then told me that DCB is different at home. He no longer likes to go outside when he is home. DCD will ask DCB if he wants to swim or go to the park and DCB will say no that he wants to stay at home.

DCD then said that DCB just seems off. Like he is afraid to get in trouble. DCD asked if DCB gets in trouble here. I told him no, told him I implement redirection and time out here, but I don't remember when DCB's last TO was as it's been so long. (I think DCB has only had one TO and that was for throwing a toy.)

DCD also asked if there was yelling. No, I don't yell at the children. I did not tell DCD this, but my son yells/has tantrums often because he is 18 months. DCD knows I have a son.

DCD expressed that he doesn't want DCB to have his spirit squashed. Said that mom grew up in an authoritarian style household and so it is important to DCD that DCB keeps his spirit and fun.

DCB has never gotten a bad report at the end of the day. When he would cry at drop off I would send pictures to his parents when he stopped. I've sent photos of DCB doing activities. The only thing I can think of that would upset DCB is that I make him put his own clothing on. He can put his underwear/pants on but he doesn't like to and he takes forever. So after a few minutes the other children and I will move on to an activity and DCB joins us when he puts his clothes on. I can spend 10 minutes waiting with the group for him to do it. If the group and I move along, his clothes are on in 30 seconds. DCD told me he is similar at home. It's not that he won't do something, it's that he takes forever to do it.

I told DCD I sense concern and worry from him. He said they were happy here, liked my structure, the activities I do with the children, etc. But he just wanted to watch DCB. DCD admitted that DCB has had a lot of changes. And wondered if DCB is upset because DCB's sister gets to go to work with DCM (she is a teacher) and he comes here.

I am super lost here.

Is it me? Is it this DCB? Am I taking this too personally? I want DCB to be happy here. Truth be told I thought he was until today! I have to be honest I am kind of confused as to how DCB not wanting to swim, go to the park, or being different at home is my fault?
How many hours is he in care for? I am sorry but I think it is either A. he spends too much time at daycare and is glad to finally be home
b. he knows how to get his way.

I would not let that bother you too much.
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Old 10-10-2018, 04:09 AM
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1. I could not IMAGINE having this conversation 10 years ago. Dcp's are WAYYYY too concerned today.

2. It sounds like he is tired and/or attention seeking. Maybe suggest to parents that they ask dcb what he wants to do for some special time after dc? I find most kids just want to stay home and play with their OWN toys/parents. They've socialized and 'worked' all day.

3. Why does every parent need to be on the go so much? I see this from SOOO many of my dc kids. They are so overscheduled. If they don't have a planned activity, oarents create ine.
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Old 10-10-2018, 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Baby Beluga View Post
mom grew up in an authoritarian style household and so it is important to DCD that DCB keeps his spirit and fun.


DCB has had a lot of changes. And wondered if DCB is upset because DCB's sister gets to go to work with DCM (she is a teacher) and he comes here.
I read parental guilt and projection.
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Old 10-10-2018, 05:21 AM
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I read parental guilt and projection.
My first thought too...
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Old 10-10-2018, 06:04 AM
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DCD then told me that DCB is different at home. He no longer likes to go outside when he is home. DCD will ask DCB if he wants to swim or go to the park and DCB will say no that he wants to stay at home.

DCD then said that DCB just seems off. Like he is afraid to get in trouble.

DCD expressed that he doesn't want DCB to have his spirit squashed. Said that mom grew up in an authoritarian style household and so it is important to DCD that DCB keeps his spirit and fun.
My thoughts:

1. This is an only child whose parents don't know the range of typical behavior among various children or the changes in behavior that come so rapidly in any given child.
2. This is a child who's receiving a lot of mental and physical stimulation in a quality daycare and wants to take the weekends off.
3. This is a child with parents who are projecting their own experiences onto him. You're quiet? Unsure of yourself? Must be the result of an adult who has you scared to take action.
4. This is a child who's being placed under a lot of pressure . . . to perform as if he's under no pressure. I hope the parents learn to relax and enjoy the journey, so their kid will be able to enjoy the journey as well.
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Old 10-10-2018, 06:13 AM
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Thank you everyone, I will try to answer all the questions.

I too wondered if projection was a part of it too.

DCB is in care from 7:30am - 5:00pm. I looked at his intake form and mom said at the at time he awoke at 6:30am. Family lives about 30 minutes away from me (mom works in my community.) So up at 6:30am, with me from 7:30 - 5:00pm. Get's home at about 5:30pm. Although sister just started gymnastics in my community and DCB goes along for those classes so I image they are getting home much later than 5:30pm on those days. DCB has also told me they do family things on the weekend.

Family moved cross country in October of 2017. Mom switched careers, DCB went from being in a center, to being home with mom to coming to me. Dad travels a lot for work.

One thing I found interesting: Dad told me yesterday DCB doesn't watch much TV. When reading DCB's intake form (filled out via email from mom) this was written:

He does like movies and cartoons and I will admit he spends too much time in my opinion with them. We have an iPad that he uses to access more educational apps to help with letters and numbers, sorting, etc.

Mom also wrote:

Of my two children he is by far the most verbose and socially friendly. He will introduce himself and say how old he is to anyone that says hi to him - this is a little scary for me and I have been trying to teach him about strangers but it hasn't sunk in yet. Emotionally, I would like to see him more aware of his emotions and be able to verbalize them - He tends to lash out when he is angry (usually instigated by his older sister).

He is talkative here if I ask him about something of interest and during circle time. We did have a talk early on about him talking to me when other parents are here. He was interrupting and trying to get my attention for non-important matters when I was speaking to other parents at pick-up time. We talked about it and I told him he needs to wait his turn and not interrupt when another parent is here unless he or a friend is hurt. It's a talk I have with the entire class.

I don't know you all. It is really bugging me. If DCB wasn't adjusting well here I would understand their concern and would have been expecting this conversation to happen. But I thought he had adjusted beautifully and was doing great here so it really caught me by surprise. And I feel like I was given the responsibility of fixing something that I didn't create and something that isn't happening here.
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Old 10-10-2018, 06:23 AM
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And I feel like I was given the responsibility of fixing something that I didn't create and something that isn't happening here.
That's what I was thinking and here is how I would handle it;

"Hmm, DCD/DCM I don't see any of that type of behavior at home. He's doing great here! If I do have any issues though I'll be sure to mention them. Have a good day! Bye!"

Rinse and repeat.

Like Diva said, some parents now days are OVERLY involved and almost always about the wrong things.

I have a group of boys right now that are all either new 4yr olds or 3.5 nearing 4 and ALL of them seem to be going through this inner change where they are really struggling to regulate themselves and their emotions. They bounce from clingy to "get away from me" in 3 seconds and cover the entire gamut of teenage angst during a 4 minute drop off.

I think this DCK is growing, aging and maturing. He isn't always going to be the same 2 yr old they've always had.
Since they are the ones that think he has an issue, let them deal You don't have an issue with him in care so....
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:00 AM
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Thank you everyone, I will try to answer all the questions.

I too wondered if projection was a part of it too.

DCB is in care from 7:30am - 5:00pm. I looked at his intake form and mom said at the at time he awoke at 6:30am. Family lives about 30 minutes away from me (mom works in my community.) So up at 6:30am, with me from 7:30 - 5:00pm. Get's home at about 5:30pm. Although sister just started gymnastics in my community and DCB goes along for those classes so I image they are getting home much later than 5:30pm on those days. DCB has also told me they do family things on the weekend.

Family moved cross country in October of 2017. Mom switched careers, DCB went from being in a center, to being home with mom to coming to me. Dad travels a lot for work.

One thing I found interesting: Dad told me yesterday DCB doesn't watch much TV. When reading DCB's intake form (filled out via email from mom) this was written:

He does like movies and cartoons and I will admit he spends too much time in my opinion with them. We have an iPad that he uses to access more educational apps to help with letters and numbers, sorting, etc.

Mom also wrote:

Of my two children he is by far the most verbose and socially friendly. He will introduce himself and say how old he is to anyone that says hi to him - this is a little scary for me and I have been trying to teach him about strangers but it hasn't sunk in yet. Emotionally, I would like to see him more aware of his emotions and be able to verbalize them - He tends to lash out when he is angry (usually instigated by his older sister).

He is talkative here if I ask him about something of interest and during circle time. We did have a talk early on about him talking to me when other parents are here. He was interrupting and trying to get my attention for non-important matters when I was speaking to other parents at pick-up time. We talked about it and I told him he needs to wait his turn and not interrupt when another parent is here unless he or a friend is hurt. It's a talk I have with the entire class.

I don't know you all. It is really bugging me. If DCB wasn't adjusting well here I would understand their concern and would have been expecting this conversation to happen. But I thought he had adjusted beautifully and was doing great here so it really caught me by surprise. And I feel like I was given the responsibility of fixing something that I didn't create and something that isn't happening here.
So mom is a teacher and drops off at 730 and he is there until 5. I would suggest to her if they are that worried maybe pick him up earlier. I doubt she works until 5. Since she works in your community she probably isn't working until 5. I have teachers that drop off at 730 and get off at about 345. They have picked up by 430. Put it back on the parents. I seriously doubt it has anything to do with you but more of the lack of time that is being spent with the boy. Sounds like the girl is getting more attention and he senses that.
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:00 AM
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So mom is a teacher and drops off at 730 and he is there until 5. I would suggest to her if they are that worried maybe pick him up earlier. I doubt she works until 5. Since she works in your community she probably isn't working until 5. I have teachers that drop off at 730 and get off at about 345. They have picked up by 430. Put it back on the parents. I seriously doubt it has anything to do with you but more of the lack of time that is being spent with the boy. Sounds like the girl is getting more attention and he senses that.
Yes. School hours are 8:45 AM-3:30 PM. Mom is an art teacher so I need she needs some time to clean up and prep for the next day. How much, I am not sure? I know most schools here utilize specials teachers for playground duty, lunch duty, etc. So I am not sure what all mom's work responsibilities are.

I am going to guess that mom is using some of that time to help sister with her homework? Mom mentioned that sister gets to spend time with mom after school is over in the classroom and that was the first thing to came to mind. With getting home late and adding in gymnastics, I can't think of any other time that they could logically fit it in. I could be wrong though.
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:02 AM
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That's what I was thinking and here is how I would handle it;

"Hmm, DCD/DCM I don't see any of that type of behavior at home. He's doing great here! If I do have any issues though I'll be sure to mention them. Have a good day! Bye!"

Rinse and repeat.

Like Diva said, some parents now days are OVERLY involved and almost always about the wrong things.

I have a group of boys right now that are all either new 4yr olds or 3.5 nearing 4 and ALL of them seem to be going through this inner change where they are really struggling to regulate themselves and their emotions. They bounce from clingy to "get away from me" in 3 seconds and cover the entire gamut of teenage angst during a 4 minute drop off.

I think this DCK is growing, aging and maturing. He isn't always going to be the same 2 yr old they've always had.
Since they are the ones that think he has an issue, let them deal You don't have an issue with him in care so....
I like this. Mom never mentioned anything to me. No questions, concerns, nothing. It was dad who did. Between my thoughts of DCB adjusting and doing well, and DCM's lack of questions and concerns I was quite surprised yesterday.

Dad said he is the more direct one and mom is more shy and less direct.
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:11 AM
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Yes. School hours are 8:45 AM-3:30 PM. Mom is an art teacher so I need she needs some time to clean up and prep for the next day. How much, I am not sure? I know most schools here utilize specials teachers for playground duty, lunch duty, etc. So I am not sure what all mom's work responsibilities are.

I am going to guess that mom is using some of that time to help sister with her homework? Mom mentioned that sister gets to spend time with mom after school is over in the classroom and that was the first thing to came to mind. With getting home late and adding in gymnastics, I can't think of any other time that they could logically fit it in. I could be wrong though.
Yeah she is adding in an extra hour in the morning and 1.5 hours in the evening. I have had art teachers and other special teachers. They work the same amount of hours as the other teachers.There is your answer(she does not work an extra 2.5 hours every day). She likes spending the time with the daughter and not the son. Dad is probably seeing some things that he questions but isn't going to blame it on his wife. There is probably more at home that goes on as far as favoritism if there is issues with the boy. Sounds like you are stuck in the middle of that and an easy target to blame since you are new etc.. Trust me been there done that.
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:21 AM
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I read parental guilt and projection.
Exactly this! If you don’t want his spirit squashed then stay home and raise him?? Don’t dictate to me how I run my daycare!

Whenever parents get on with this type of thing (and luckily they rarely do) I tell them that it is typical because I have a LOT more rules here that they have to follow. My goal every day is to keep everyone healthy, safe and happy and for this reason I have rules that might be very different from at home. Also just the kid changing and growing in general.

I would probably also try to turn it around on them and ask “has anything changed at home”? Home changes are almost always the culprit for weird behavior.
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:23 AM
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So mom is a teacher and drops off at 730 and he is there until 5. I would suggest to her if they are that worried maybe pick him up earlier. I doubt she works until 5. Since she works in your community she probably isn't working until 5. I have teachers that drop off at 730 and get off at about 345. They have picked up by 430. Put it back on the parents. I seriously doubt it has anything to do with you but more of the lack of time that is being spent with the boy. Sounds like the girl is getting more attention and he senses that.
Very good point!! Long day for a little kid and maybe he thinks sis is actually hanging out with mom during the day? Could he be misinterpreting all that? Could be showing signs of insecurity there and doesn't want to leave home, wants to be where he feels safe. But again, it's nothing you're doing or not doing!! If dcb seems to be doing well at dc, just tell them that and for your own sanity don't over think everything. If they're happy with your care and place their trust in you, then I'm sure whatever this little guy is going through, he'll work it out for himself before long.
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:26 AM
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I’m thinking that if dcd can make it be your fault, then it’s not theirs.

I like BC’s response about not seeing the behaviors with you and leaving it at that. If dcd continues to press it, maybe it’s time to call him out, and ask if he’d like to give his notice.
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  #22  
Old 10-10-2018, 10:47 AM
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daycarediva daycarediva is online now
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OH MY GOD that is A LOT of changes for a little person to adjust to. Add in the fact that is a 12 hour day for him with sisters sports/activities, *I* wouldn't want to leave home after that.

I like BC's answer, "I see none of that here. Dcb has adjusted beautifully."
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  #23  
Old 10-10-2018, 11:09 AM
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Baby Beluga Baby Beluga is online now
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Thank you everyone for making me feel better about this.

Ugh.

From here on out it's what BC said, DCB is doing just fine, no concerns, etc. Unless a real concern develops.
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  #24  
Old 10-10-2018, 11:13 AM
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Annalee Annalee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Beluga View Post
Thank you everyone for making me feel better about this.

Ugh.

From here on out it's what BC said, DCB is doing just fine, no concerns, etc. Unless a real concern develops.
I agree, put it back on their watch. I had a dcd of dcb2 ask me this week if I had heard the f-bomb out of dcb2 mouth which I hadn't and very adamantly let dcd know it was coming from someone in their domain because he doesn't do that here or we would have had a conference by now.
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